Identifying Contact Hours in Higher Education

Identifying Contact Hours in Higher Education

  • Date added: 2022-12-02
  • Duration: 25:53

Credit Hours are a unit of time required by academic institutions to ensure that course goals and learning outcomes are met. In this episode our host interviews two faculty members to discuss ideas for professors to meet their required contact hours.

  • Filetype: MP3 (160 kbps 44100 Hz)
  • Size: 31 MB
Show Transcript

0 - 4.365 [MUSIC PLAYING] 

9.965 - 11.09 ANNOUNCER: Hello, everyone. 

11.09 - 13.55 The topic for this episode of The T in Teaching 

13.55 - 14.75 is contact hours. 

14.75 - 16.88 The host for today's episode from the Fox School 

16.88 - 19.1 of Business Department of Online and Digital Learning 

19.1 - 21.29 is Instructional Designer Shawn Ponder. 

21.29 - 23.21 Our host interviewed two faculty members 

23.21 - 26.6 from Temple University, Dr. Kelly Grace and Mary Conran 

26.6 - 28.55 to get their take on today's topic. 

28.55 - 31.28 Here's what you need to know about contact hours. 

31.28 - 34.25 A credit hour is the basic unit of academic credit. 

34.25 - 37.28 1 semester credit is equivalent to roughly one hour 

37.28 - 39.32 of faculty instruction time per week 

39.32 - 43.1 for 15 weeks, which includes one week for exams. 

43.1 - 46.01 This also includes a minimum of two hours 

46.01 - 50.15 of out-of-class student work each week per credit hour. 

50.15 - 52.13 An equivalent amount of work is required 

52.13 - 55.34 for other academic activities such as laboratory work, 

55.34 - 59.84 internships, practica, student work, and other academic work 

59.84 - 62.57 leading to the award of credit hours 

62.57 - 65.209 Dr. Kelly Grace joined Temple University 

65.209 - 68.51 as an adjunct professor in 2017 after teaching 

68.51 - 71.67 at Georgia Institute of technology and Texas Christian 

71.67 - 72.93 University. 

72.93 - 74.88 Currently, she serves as the director 

74.88 - 77.22 of Temple's Online Master of Science 

77.22 - 80.04 in Human Resource Management Program. 

80.04 - 82.288 KELLY GRACE: The students sit through presentations 

82.288 - 84.58 where they're very likely to-- as soon as they're done, 

84.58 - 86.07 they've checked out. 

86.07 - 88.89 PROFESSOR: Mary Conran serves as Associate Dean for Academic 

88.89 - 90.3 Programs and Curriculum where she 

90.3 - 93.24 is tasked with oversight and direction of academic programs 

93.24 - 96.6 across the BBA, MBA, and MS programs. 

96.6 - 99.462 She also serves as the professor in the Marketing Department 

99.462 - 100.92 of the Fox School of Business where 

100.92 - 102.503 she is responsible for the development 

102.503 - 104.13 and presentation of undergraduate 

104.13 - 105.75 and graduate marketing courses. 

105.75 - 108.09 MARY CONRAN: I would trust the instructional designers 

108.09 - 108.81 as well. 

108.81 - 110.49 We're very fortunate here that we've got 

110.49 - 111.99 great instructional designers. 

111.99 - 113.448 PROFESSOR: Thank you for listening, 

113.448 - 114.75 and please enjoy the episode. 

119.81 - 122.24 SHAWN PONDER: Welcome to this episode of T in Teaching. 

122.24 - 125.3 Today I am joined by Kelly Grace and Mary Conran. 

125.3 - 127.132 Thank you both for joining us 

127.132 - 128.09 KELLY GRACE: Thank you. 

128.09 - 129.05 We're glad to be here. 

129.05 - 129.784 SHAWN PONDER: Yeah. 

129.784 - 130.37 MARY CONRAN: Excited to be here. 

130.37 - 131.07 Thank you. 

131.07 - 132.445 SHAWN PONDER: We're going to jump 

132.445 - 134.57 right in with what are contact hours 

134.57 - 137.13 and why are they important? 

137.13 - 139.13 MARY CONRAN: Well, they've come to the forefront 

139.13 - 144.11 recently because they're related to the delivery modality. 

144.11 - 147.41 Usually the university required a 15-week semester, 

147.41 - 149.6 we knew how many hours the students were meeting, 

149.6 - 151.37 and it was just a calculation. 

151.37 - 154.01 These are standards actually set by the Pennsylvania 

154.01 - 156.53 Department of education that Temple complies with. 

156.53 - 158.42 But the change in delivery modalities 

158.42 - 160.173 put this at the forefront of discussions. 

160.173 - 161.84 Whether you're doing a compressed format 

161.84 - 165.08 or an online format or a flipped course format, 

165.08 - 169.46 that has brought this into the to the discussions 

169.46 - 171.722 more often than we expected. 

171.722 - 173.18 So it's a little bit of a challenge 

173.18 - 175.01 because people have misconceptions 

175.01 - 176.99 on what is a contact hour. 

176.99 - 180.81 And so it's important as directors of programs, 

180.81 - 184.29 as faculty, that we understand what these contact hours are. 

184.29 - 186.45 And we also need to explain that to students 

186.45 - 190.17 because it's something different than just merely homework. 

190.17 - 193.41 It's particularly taking a look at contemporary education. 

193.41 - 195.06 It's the idea of a flipped classroom. 

195.06 - 198.6 Doing work deliberately to build and enhance 

198.6 - 201.6 knowledge as opposed to refining knowledge, which 

201.6 - 203.31 is more of a homework base. 

203.31 - 204.69 KELLY GRACE: Right, yeah. 

204.69 - 211.65 It's-- I think about it as what we used to do in class in 15 

211.65 - 213.63 weeks is a contact hour. 

213.63 - 218.37 So anything that I would have done in a traditional format 

218.37 - 219.18 counts. 

219.18 - 223.11 And the requirement is that for a 3-credit class, 

223.11 - 226.08 it's 37 and 1/2 contact hours. 

226.08 - 229.41 So what would I have done in a real class. 

229.41 - 230.22 Sorry. 

230.22 - 234.21 A traditionally formatted class. 

234.21 - 237.75 So I would have lecture, of course. 

237.75 - 240.42 And that's why you get into the profession. 

240.42 - 242.49 We're all brilliant lecturers. 

242.49 - 244.38 I would have had group discussions. 

244.38 - 247.77 I would have shown some videos. 

247.77 - 250.47 I might have had guest lecturers in class. 

250.47 - 253.02 I might have had a test. 

253.02 - 254.88 In the old days before technology, 

254.88 - 258.107 we would have done all of our testing in class. 

258.107 - 258.899 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

258.899 - 260.982 KELLY GRACE: I might have had group presentations, 

260.982 - 262.35 individual presentations. 

262.35 - 264.96 So as we think about contact hours, 

264.96 - 267.63 as you're moving to these other modalities, 

267.63 - 270.39 one of the groundings is, what would you have 

270.39 - 272.407 done in that 15-week format? 

272.407 - 273.24 SHAWN PONDER: Right. 

273.24 - 274.62 In a traditional format. 

274.62 - 276.96 So the general rule of thumb-- and people 

276.96 - 278.91 don't like to use that word, a rule of thumb, 

278.91 - 281.79 but there is actually a scheme set up by the university 

281.79 - 283.5 for, based on the number of credit hours, 

283.5 - 285.435 how many contact hours need to exist. 

285.435 - 285.81 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

285.81 - 287.643 KELLY GRACE: So most of our business courses 

287.643 - 291.67 are 3 credit hours, 15 weeks, that's 45, but then you say, 

291.67 - 294.24 well, there's holidays and other things, 

294.24 - 299.97 so the 37.5 should not be an issue for traditional format-- 

299.97 - 300.96 delivery format. 

300.96 - 301.752 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

301.752 - 303.84 SHAWN PONDER: So a lot of times, we get questions 

303.84 - 308.01 about like the distinction between homework and contact 

308.01 - 308.658 hours. 

308.658 - 310.2 Can you talk a little bit about that? 

310.2 - 312.03 I know you gave a few examples, but do you 

312.03 - 316.08 mind diving in just a little bit deeper between the two? 

316.08 - 316.83 MARY CONRAN: Yeah. 

316.83 - 320.22 The content is actually the learning, 

320.22 - 323.25 the sharing of the information, the building of the knowledge, 

323.25 - 327.03 the approaching the application and synthesis part of it, 

327.03 - 330.63 whereas homework really is more refinement, more rehearsal, 

330.63 - 332.67 more practicing for expertise. 

332.67 - 335.43 So it's something that students do on their own. 

335.43 - 337.41 It's not actually learning the content, 

337.41 - 338.97 it's practicing the content. 

338.97 - 341.31 So there's where the big difference is. 

341.31 - 344.22 And so when you take a look at something like a case analysis, 

344.22 - 346.11 you would have some difference here. 

346.11 - 348.81 If the students are actually doing a case analysis, 

348.81 - 351.6 that's an application in synthesis exercise. 

351.6 - 353.843 That would be a-- 

353.843 - 355.26 it could be used as an assessment, 

355.26 - 357.6 but it's also a contact hours, particularly 

357.6 - 359.1 if they're doing it collaboratively 

359.1 - 361.75 and the instructor keys in on point. 

361.75 - 365.43 So asking questions either through discussion board 

365.43 - 367.53 or video chats or whatever, that would 

367.53 - 372.33 be a way that you could do cases as contact hours, 

372.33 - 374.077 not as homework. 

374.077 - 374.91 KELLY GRACE: Mm-hmm. 

374.91 - 376.98 Contact-- I'm sorry. 

376.98 - 379.71 Homework also includes preparation. 

379.71 - 381.66 So reading, reading. 

381.66 - 384.45 And my area, we do a lot of reading 

384.45 - 386.82 in leadership and in human resources, what 

386.82 - 388.08 are the current practices. 

388.08 - 389.997 Then you come to class and do the applications 

389.997 - 391.95 or you go to a group discussion and do 

391.95 - 393.99 a case or a conversation. 

393.99 - 399.63 So that preparation time counts as that homework component 

399.63 - 400.65 in many classes. 

400.65 - 403.89 It may be that there is a video-- 

403.89 - 409.56 a TED talk that I want students to review as particularly 

409.56 - 413.1 interesting or intriguing or new content, 

413.1 - 415.68 if I were doing a traditional format class, 

415.68 - 417.84 I would still have them do it outside of class, 

417.84 - 421.36 it's just not worth my time to have them prepare that. 

421.36 - 425.41 So do that in class, so I would have them do that as homework, 

425.41 - 427.75 as preparation. 

427.75 - 430.45 And that's the big difference for me 

430.45 - 434.93 is, as I keep my frame in that, what would I do face-to-face? 

434.93 - 435.43 I make it-- 

435.43 - 436.87 MARY CONRAN: Contextualizing the learning. 

436.87 - 438.1 KELLY GRACE: It actually is, yes. 

438.1 - 439.06 SHAWN PONDER: I love it. 

439.06 - 440.602 MARY CONRAN: I think there might also 

440.602 - 442.48 be differences in what constitutes 

442.48 - 445.33 homework versus contact hours based on discipline. 

445.33 - 447.827 SHAWN PONDER: Mm-hmm. 

447.827 - 450.91 MARY CONRAN: Reading a stats textbook. 

450.91 - 453.55 Yes, that's preparation, but also it's 

453.55 - 456.52 the acclimation of knowledge, the building of knowledge, 

456.52 - 458.86 and then what the instructor will do with the students 

458.86 - 461.38 once they get to class with that prep might be a little bit 

461.38 - 462.88 different. 

462.88 - 465.4 Same thing with finance or any of the quant methods. 

465.4 - 468.13 But I agree, for many of the qualitative courses, 

468.13 - 471.04 those ratings are critical for preparing the students, 

471.04 - 473.98 priming them for the critical activities that do 

473.98 - 475.39 happen when we're face-to-face. 

475.39 - 477.31 So even in an online class, we're 

477.31 - 480.29 meeting with students in person. 

480.29 - 483.02 So whether it's an hour or two hours, whatever it may be, 

483.02 - 485.45 we can then use that time most effectively 

485.45 - 487.37 because they prepared the work. 

487.37 - 490.58 In some of the lower-level courses and the BBA core, 

490.58 - 493.61 a lot of that is related to the Pearson or the Connect product. 

493.61 - 496.16 Students do the readings and they do some quizzes, 

496.16 - 499.4 and their knowledge-based just like their ante 

499.4 - 504.242 to get into the class rather than really an assessment. 

504.242 - 506.45 It's not an assessment of their knowledge, it's just, 

506.45 - 509.03 are they ready to have a conversation about it? 

509.03 - 512.62 And that allows us to be more impactful in the classroom, 

512.62 - 514.73 whatever the delivery modality is, 

514.73 - 516.32 if students have been prepared. 

516.32 - 518.853 So that homework is very critical. 

518.853 - 519.77 SHAWN PONDER: I agree. 

519.77 - 520.85 I completely agree. 

520.85 - 524.179 And that ties into a little bit about what 

524.179 - 525.38 you do in your classes. 

525.38 - 527.69 Like I know, Mary, you do VoiceThread. 

527.69 - 531.26 And I know, Kelly, you've done seven- and 14-week classes 

531.26 - 532.13 and developed that. 

532.13 - 534.14 Can you talk a little bit specifically 

534.14 - 535.58 like what do you do in your class 

535.58 - 538.49 or even just talking about the VoiceThread as well? 

538.49 - 539.99 MARY CONRAN: Yeah, I use VoiceThread 

539.99 - 542.69 as a way of continuing the discussion because my classes 

542.69 - 545.84 are online, although I have used it in my in-person classes 

545.84 - 548.27 at all, and we're always running out of time-- running out 

548.27 - 549.74 of runway, I say. 

549.74 - 553.07 But I want to have application discussions with my students, 

553.07 - 554.42 so I use VoiceThread for this. 

554.42 - 556.85 So I'll create a VoiceThread. 

556.85 - 560.36 It's just a tool that is compatible with Canvas as our 

560.36 - 562.25 as our learning platform. 

562.25 - 566.69 I create a series of powerpoints and I have an intro video, 

566.69 - 568.4 and then I'll provoke a question. 

568.4 - 571.91 I'll ask something and have students not only respond 

571.91 - 573.793 to me, but also respond to another learner, 

573.793 - 575.96 and then I'll say, OK, well, you probably said this, 

575.96 - 578.21 I can anticipate, I've taught the class enough. 

578.21 - 580.97 And then ask them a follow-on question. 

580.97 - 582.835 So you just mentioned Apple. 

582.835 - 584.21 Many of you just mentioned Apple. 

584.21 - 586.56 How does Apple actually do this and are there flaws? 

586.56 - 589.19 So I can continue a discussion, and then I 

589.19 - 591.41 can go in and jump in during the week 

591.41 - 594.71 and say, oh, that was a great-- really great comment, Shawn, 

594.71 - 595.97 but what about this? 

595.97 - 598.785 And what I really find great is particularly 

598.785 - 600.41 in the graduate-level courses, students 

600.41 - 602.36 will bring in content externally. 

602.36 - 604.43 So they'll bring in specific experiences 

604.43 - 606.41 from their workplace or they will 

606.41 - 610.7 find content examples of real companies 

610.7 - 612.62 doing what we're talking about in class. 

612.62 - 614.75 And that makes for a much richer experience. 

614.75 - 617.36 That's mimicking what I would have done in the classroom, 

617.36 - 620.36 so that would count as contact hours as opposed 

620.36 - 624.17 to answer this one question and move on. 

624.17 - 626.72 That would be a little bit more like homework. 

626.72 - 628.85 KELLY GRACE: And sometimes I call it-- when I'm-- 

628.85 - 631.76 sometimes I think of discussion boards that are poorly 

631.76 - 633.14 done as posted homework. 

633.14 - 633.89 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

633.89 - 635.75 KELLY GRACE: And that's not the intent 

635.75 - 637.67 behind a group discussion. 

637.67 - 639.23 We use a lot of discussion boards 

639.23 - 641.54 to emulate that kind of conversation 

641.54 - 644.24 we would have in play, in real class. 

644.24 - 645.2 Sorry, did it again. 

645.2 - 649.13 And in a live traditional course. 

649.13 - 652.97 So thinking about ways to emulate that. 

652.97 - 655.01 Perhaps you-- one of the things I do 

655.01 - 656.9 is provide students the opportunity 

656.9 - 660.65 to post a video instead of writing comments. 

660.65 - 663.41 And some students prefer that modality 

663.41 - 665.86 and it looks like live, but you want 

665.86 - 668.21 to make sure you get in there as the instructor 

668.21 - 671.27 and provide some comments and some moderation 

671.27 - 673.79 and pull that conversation into the classroom. 

673.79 - 674.54 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

674.54 - 675.95 KELLY GRACE: And/or pull that conversation 

675.95 - 677.03 into the classroom. 

677.03 - 680.83 I have one instructor who begins his class with, AHA's. 

680.83 - 685.49 AHA's key learnings or new content, new related content. 

685.49 - 687.92 And we've talked about, well, let's move that 

687.92 - 689.092 to a discussion board. 

689.092 - 691.55 They can look at it, they can see what the others have had. 

691.55 - 694.58 And then you can pull those AHA's, which you would normally 

694.58 - 697.04 do in the traditional classroom, you 

697.04 - 699.98 can go ahead and do that outside and just 

699.98 - 701.78 bring in a couple of the key points. 

701.78 - 703.94 So those are incredibly effective. 

703.94 - 706.67 Those can be very effective, very helpful for the students. 

706.67 - 708.77 Having smaller discussion board groupings 

708.77 - 709.88 can be very effective. 

709.88 - 713.48 In a class of 35, it may be hard for the student 

713.48 - 715.25 to find out-- to think through OK 

715.25 - 717.44 what can I truly add to this conversation, 

717.44 - 719.88 so keep those groupings small, and Canvas has 

719.88 - 722.43 great functionality for that. 

722.43 - 728.37 Another idea is for group projects. 

728.37 - 730.65 It's one of my favorites for group projects. 

730.65 - 733.02 And even if I was teaching in a traditional format, 

733.02 - 735.66 I would do this, is, OK, guys, you're 

735.66 - 738.283 going to all present your group presentations online. 

738.283 - 739.2 SHAWN PONDER: Love it. 

739.2 - 740.43 KELLY GRACE: Post it. 

740.43 - 743.623 Everybody before class, you're looking at those presentations, 

743.623 - 746.04 you're reviewing them, you're going to make some comments, 

746.04 - 747.54 provide some feedback. 

747.54 - 749.01 What question didn't they answer? 

749.01 - 750.51 What question do you want-- how does 

750.51 - 752.52 your content relate to theirs? 

752.52 - 756.69 So that when we come into class, the presenting group 

756.69 - 760.77 already has an idea of how to keep conversation going. 

760.77 - 762.66 They don't have to repeat themselves. 

762.66 - 765.642 And I don't have to have the students sit 

765.642 - 767.1 through presentations where they're 

767.1 - 769.83 very likely-- as soon as they're done, they've checked out. 

769.83 - 770.25 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

770.25 - 771.583 KELLY GRACE: Bless their hearts. 

771.583 - 772.41 [LAUGHTER] 

772.41 - 774.72 MARY CONRAN: It improves the overall outcome 

774.72 - 776.73 of the product being produced. 

776.73 - 778.71 But you bring up this interesting issue 

778.71 - 781.29 of permeability and fluidity of it. 

781.29 - 785.24 It's not really one component discreetly. 

785.24 - 786.488 It's a complement. 

786.488 - 788.03 They should all be complementing what 

788.03 - 789.947 we're trying to do with the overall objectives 

789.947 - 790.76 of the course. 

790.76 - 792.44 And something Shawn asked earlier 

792.44 - 795.26 was this idea of having the same course in 15-week 

795.26 - 797.93 versus a seven-week format or whatever, 

797.93 - 800.9 and how we can dovetail that. 

800.9 - 803.39 And I've done that several times with one of my courses. 

803.39 - 806.75 And it's a challenge because I feel sometimes 

806.75 - 811.49 as if I'm not giving enough attention to the smaller 

811.49 - 814.85 class, the shorter-term class, and so 

814.85 - 817.1 I've come up with some of these tools and I thought, 

817.1 - 817.683 you know what? 

817.683 - 820.82 That works really well in my full semester course, too. 

820.82 - 824.24 And the students like it because it really compartmentalizes 

824.24 - 825.665 what we're trying to achieve. 

825.665 - 827.54 And again, they don't look at it as homework, 

827.54 - 829.88 but they are willing to invest their time in it, 

829.88 - 832.88 and I get better outcomes on assessments I do. 

832.88 - 835.1 They feel much more connected to the content. 

835.1 - 835.13 KELLY GRACE: Yeah. 

835.13 - 835.64 SHAWN PONDER: I love that. 

835.64 - 836.9 KELLY GRACE: I think this whole idea of the learning 

836.9 - 838.49 objectives-- the course objectives-- 

838.49 - 838.88 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

838.88 - 840.6 KELLY GRACE: We've loss track of that 

840.6 - 844.59 in our focus on this very narrow area of contact hours, 

844.59 - 846.9 but ultimately that's what's driving the course. 

846.9 - 847.2 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

847.2 - 849.21 KELLY GRACE: And the modalities and the content 

849.21 - 851.55 is-- we're trying to achieve those course objectives 

851.55 - 852.93 no matter our format. 

852.93 - 855.81 It's so important that we keep those in mind no matter 

855.81 - 856.768 what we're doing. 

856.768 - 857.31 We're doing-- 

857.31 - 858.84 SHAWN PONDER: And tie the work back to that. 

858.84 - 859.632 KELLY GRACE: Right. 

859.632 - 860.977 It has to be tied back to that. 

860.977 - 861.81 SHAWN PONDER: Right. 

861.81 - 863.73 MARY CONRAN: Well, it's like with Google Maps. 

863.73 - 865.438 You say you want to get somewhere, 

865.438 - 867.48 there's seven different ways you could get there. 

867.48 - 869.22 Do you want to pay tolls or whatever. 

869.22 - 870.63 So trying to imagine that. 

870.63 - 873.36 And also, that helps us with universal design 

873.36 - 875.49 for learning as well when trying to consider 

875.49 - 880.17 what students might prefer as a way of demonstrating 

880.17 - 881.02 proficiency. 

881.02 - 882.36 And so it helps-- 

882.36 - 884.16 these conversations are all interconnected, 

884.16 - 888.12 but it helps us reimagine what could be done for content. 

888.12 - 889.44 And it keeps it fresh. 

889.44 - 890.275 It keeps it fresh. 

890.275 - 891.15 SHAWN PONDER: Mm-hmm. 

891.15 - 891.75 All right. 

891.75 - 897.14 So, let's just say you have a faculty member, 

897.14 - 902.69 they are falling a little short on some of their contact hours. 

902.69 - 905.27 We're running into that a little bit right now 

905.27 - 907.31 and trying to give some more ideas. 

907.31 - 909.09 I know you talked a little bit about that, 

909.09 - 910.965 but do you have any advice for them 

910.965 - 912.59 for those faculty members that are just 

912.59 - 914.965 running just a little bit short of that-- of that contact 

914.965 - 916.52 hour-- or those contact hours? 

916.52 - 916.76 KELLY GRACE: Mm-hmm. 

916.76 - 917.275 Yeah. 

917.275 - 918.65 First of all, take a deep breath. 

918.65 - 919.34 [LAUGHTER] 

919.34 - 921.68 It's going to be OK. 

921.68 - 923.57 I like to-- 

923.57 - 928.49 I like to include a short video each week that I 

928.49 - 930.74 don't post until the week. 

930.74 - 934.37 And it's just a 15, 20-minute, look, 

934.37 - 936.74 this is what we did last week, this 

936.74 - 938 is what's coming up this week. 

938 - 939.38 And how-- this is how-- 

939.38 - 941.39 what I want you to get out of these components, 

941.39 - 943.25 this is why I assigned this. 

943.25 - 945.41 And this is where I hope we will be-- 

945.41 - 947.57 I expect us to be at the end of this coming week. 

947.57 - 950.96 So set the stage for them to help them 

950.96 - 955.26 with the roadmap of how are these things connected. 

955.26 - 961.21 I think it's very easy to, week 1, week 2, week-- and not-- 

961.21 - 963.24 and lose sight of that big picture 

963.24 - 966.54 without that-- without those connective tissues. 

966.54 - 969.87 And like Mary, I often might find myself at the end of class 

969.87 - 974.88 with insufficient runway to make those nice transitions. 

974.88 - 979.38 And so that's one of the things that just very softly, 

979.38 - 982.908 very gently can add a little bit of value. 

982.908 - 983.7 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

983.7 - 984.978 Yes, value, I agree with that. 

984.978 - 985.77 SHAWN PONDER: Yeah. 

985.77 - 987.09 MARY CONRAN: And it can also make 

987.09 - 988.92 the class very contemporary because you can bring 

988.92 - 990.21 in examples from the week. 

990.21 - 990.63 KELLY GRACE: From the week. 

990.63 - 993.03 MARY CONRAN: So my classes are usually Monday nights, 

993.03 - 994.68 and then invariably Tuesday morning I'm 

994.68 - 997.2 like, oh, that's what I was just talking about in class. 

997.2 - 1000.23 And so it's a great way to pull that in. 

1000.23 - 1004.4 And I would trust the instructional designers 

1004.4 - 1005.12 as well. 

1005.12 - 1006.65 We're very fortunate here that we've 

1006.65 - 1010.07 got great instructional designers, and so be open to-- 

1010.07 - 1012.8 there might be a different way to get something done. 

1012.8 - 1016.537 One of my go to strategies is, since I teach marketing 

1016.537 - 1018.62 and the interaction of marketing and supply chain, 

1018.62 - 1021.05 is I'll go to how something is made. 

1021.05 - 1023.48 And I'll say, OK, here's a five-minute video on how 

1023.48 - 1024.53 jeans are made. 

1024.53 - 1027.589 Let's talk about-- just make me an inventory list 

1027.589 - 1029.9 of all the items that go into making a pair of jeans 

1029.9 - 1031.55 and what that timeline might look like. 

1031.55 - 1033.65 So it's not an operations management part of it, 

1033.65 - 1035.15 but just trying to think about that. 

1035.15 - 1038.66 And then I can say in class, OK, so somebody came up 

1038.66 - 1041.75 with an item list of 14, somebody else had 74. 

1041.75 - 1043.46 So where are we on this? 

1043.46 - 1046.28 Just-- this is just as a conversation-starter, 

1046.28 - 1048.98 but it would be an activity where they would have to stop 

1048.98 - 1050.39 and really think about applying. 

1050.39 - 1052.31 So I think in any discipline, there's 

1052.31 - 1055.01 ways of doing that to have them think 

1055.01 - 1056.96 more proactively about the content-- 

1056.96 - 1060.71 again, more of a higher-level learning, not rehearsal, 

1060.71 - 1062.3 which is which is what homework's for. 

1062.3 - 1063.05 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

1063.05 - 1064.13 I agree with that. 

1064.13 - 1065.797 KELLY GRACE: Sometimes I look for things 

1065.797 - 1069.26 that I would do in a traditional class. 

1069.26 - 1071.66 So when I would first form groups, 

1071.66 - 1074.15 I would be walking around the room checking that you're 

1074.15 - 1075.35 on track, on target. 

1075.35 - 1077.33 Yeah, it looks like you've got the assignment. 

1077.33 - 1079.25 It seems like everybody's present. 

1079.25 - 1085.21 So I have added to a couple of my classes 

1085.21 - 1090.47 a requirement for a video of your first group meeting. 

1090.47 - 1092.03 Organizational meeting. 

1092.03 - 1093.92 I don't need to know-- 

1093.92 - 1096.41 you don't need to do any research before this. 

1096.41 - 1098.67 I want to know that you're getting started well. 

1098.67 - 1102.14 So just take a picture-- 

1102.14 - 1103.61 just video your first meeting. 

1103.61 - 1105.2 Think of me as a fly on the wall. 

1105.2 - 1107.6 And submit it. 

1107.6 - 1109.82 I'll review them. 

1109.82 - 1113.3 It's a low-stakes assignment, but it 

1113.3 - 1115.268 lets me engage with them where it 

1115.268 - 1116.81 looks like you're on the right track, 

1116.81 - 1118.723 did you think about this? 

1118.723 - 1120.14 Hey, don't forget to give yourself 

1120.14 - 1124.73 time and your project plan to video, to edit all that. 

1124.73 - 1127.4 So I find that's helpful to students, and again, 

1127.4 - 1129.5 something that I would have done to help 

1129.5 - 1133.94 in a in a traditional class that oftentimes the online students 

1133.94 - 1135.158 don't have as much access to. 

1135.158 - 1135.95 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

1135.95 - 1139.25 And so I recently saw a version of that model 

1139.25 - 1142.1 where in addition to the video, the instructor 

1142.1 - 1147.44 asked for project plan and action items, 

1147.44 - 1150.23 what are the next action items before the next check-in 

1150.23 - 1152.12 and who was responsible for it. 

1152.12 - 1155.45 And so that made a template so the instructor could 

1155.45 - 1159.05 more easily say, here's what I think you're missing or here's 

1159.05 - 1160.112 some opportunities. 

1160.112 - 1162.32 KELLY GRACE: Particularly for an undergraduate class. 

1162.32 - 1164.33 MARY CONRAN: Yes, yes, that's very helpful. 

1164.33 - 1165.56 KELLY GRACE: That would be incredibly important. 

1165.56 - 1166.7 MARY CONRAN: You're right. 

1166.7 - 1167.36 KELLY GRACE: Yeah. 

1167.36 - 1168.92 SHAWN PONDER: And it helps students not 

1168.92 - 1170 to wait till the last minute. 

1170 - 1170.63 KELLY GRACE: Exactly. 

1170.63 - 1170.96 MARY CONRAN: Yes. 

1170.96 - 1172.73 SHAWN PONDER: And if there is like a group member that's 

1172.73 - 1174.98 slacking a little bit, you'll know right away. 

1174.98 - 1176.162 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

1176.162 - 1176.87 SHAWN PONDER: OK. 

1176.87 - 1179.78 So I'm glad you even mentioned that about the-- 

1179.78 - 1182.21 having the requirement of having students 

1182.21 - 1185.18 to record their meeting-- 

1185.18 - 1188.33 their group meeting because a lot of times, professors 

1188.33 - 1192.56 will think that group work is considered the contact hours, 

1192.56 - 1195.52 but it's just the way that you handle that. 

1195.52 - 1196.445 KELLY GRACE: Right. 

1196.445 - 1198.07 SHAWN PONDER: It's-- for the most part, 

1198.07 - 1199.69 it's considered homework, correct? 

1199.69 - 1200.65 KELLY GRACE: Mm-hmm. 

1200.65 - 1203.398 SHAWN PONDER: And that's what we try to convey to them, too. 

1203.398 - 1205.69 Like, it's I'm glad you talked a little bit about that. 

1205.69 - 1208.018 Make that a requirement and then provide that feedback. 

1208.018 - 1208.81 KELLY GRACE: Right. 

1208.81 - 1211.48 And again, I know very few instructors 

1211.48 - 1217.84 who are going to devote full classes so that the group can 

1217.84 - 1219.64 effectively perform. 

1219.64 - 1222.04 So just think about-- 

1222.04 - 1224.44 I keep going back to that grounding of what would 

1224.44 - 1225.28 you do in a-- 

1225.28 - 1227.68 how would you use your time well in a full-time-- 

1227.68 - 1228.01 MARY CONRAN: Yeah. 

1228.01 - 1228.56 MARY CONRAN: You would-- 

1228.56 - 1229.27 MARY CONRAN: --traditional course. 

1229.27 - 1231.19 KELLY GRACE: A few minutes of time for the group 

1231.19 - 1233.65 to get together and to interact, but you wouldn't dedicate 

1233.65 - 1234.893 the entire class to it. 

1234.893 - 1235.81 SHAWN PONDER: Exactly. 

1235.81 - 1237.4 KELLY GRACE: You find another way for that to happen. 

1237.4 - 1238 SHAWN PONDER: Exactly. 

1238 - 1240.64 And again, that's what we call like the little gray area 

1240.64 - 1243.31 sometimes, but also, sometimes professors 

1243.31 - 1248.05 want to count what they do in class as contact hours, 

1248.05 - 1250 but that can't do that. 

1250 - 1252.4 Like that's double-counting? 

1252.4 - 1254.14 MARY CONRAN: Right. 

1254.14 - 1257.81 Class time is counted as the base of contact time. 

1257.81 - 1259.78 So if you're doing a seven-week course, 

1259.78 - 1261.67 you're meeting two hours a week, that's 

1261.67 - 1264.46 14 hours as the baseline for contact, 

1264.46 - 1267.37 and we're trying to fill the bucket up to 37 and 1/2 

1267.37 - 1270.22 or ideally a little bit higher because some people might 

1270.22 - 1273.13 go through the contact a little bit-- the content a little bit 

1273.13 - 1275.2 faster so try to buffer in there. 

1275.2 - 1275.95 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

1275.95 - 1280.18 And so that's separate from that 37 and 1/2. 

1280.18 - 1282.7 Like the contact each week is separate. 

1282.7 - 1283.847 And so that's included-- 

1283.847 - 1285.68 KELLY GRACE: So it's included as part of it. 

1285.68 - 1286.39 It's the base. 

1286.39 - 1290.15 37 and 1/2 less the 14 that you would be meeting 

1290.15 - 1292.992 leaves you 23 and 1/2 left if my math is correct. 

1292.992 - 1295.45 SHAWN PONDER: Oh, I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. 

1295.45 - 1296.41 That's OK. 

1296.41 - 1297.14 Sorry. 

1297.14 - 1299.56 I meant, like-- yeah, because I don't want anybody 

1299.56 - 1302.32 to listen to this to be confused at all. 

1302.32 - 1303.43 No. 

1303.43 - 1306.34 I just was restating what I was saying, like how 

1306.34 - 1308.23 sometimes like what you do in class, 

1308.23 - 1309.42 that's just the class time. 

1309.42 - 1310 KELLY GRACE: That's class time. 

1310 - 1310.3 SHAWN PONDER: Right. 

1310.3 - 1311.05 KELLY GRACE: Yeah. 

1311.05 - 1311.87 That's class time. 

1311.87 - 1312.68 SHAWN PONDER: Thank you. 

1312.68 - 1313.847 KELLY GRACE: Got it, got it. 

1313.847 - 1314.78 MARY CONRAN: Yeah. 

1314.78 - 1319.58 SHAWN PONDER: Also, with in-class quizzes versus quizzes 

1319.58 - 1323 outside of class, which counts for contact hours 

1323 - 1323.96 and which does not? 

1323.96 - 1327.17 Like can you speak a little bit about quizzes? 

1327.17 - 1329.357 MARY CONRAN: We need King Solomon for this. 

1329.357 - 1332.033 [LAUGHTER] 

1332.033 - 1333.95 KELLY GRACE: I don't think it's all that hard. 

1333.95 - 1334.34 MARY CONRAN: Yeah. 

1334.34 - 1335.93 KELLY GRACE: Because I go back to my grounding-- 

1335.93 - 1337.347 MARY CONRAN: Yeah, it's debatable. 

1337.347 - 1338.15 It's debatable. 

1338.15 - 1339.9 KELLY GRACE: What would you have done in-- 

1339.9 - 1341.69 if you had your traditional 15-week term, 

1341.69 - 1343.37 what would you have done in class? 

1343.37 - 1346.19 You're going to give your major tests in class 

1346.19 - 1349.64 because that's how we have traditionally done it. 

1349.64 - 1351.2 So if you've got a test-- 

1351.2 - 1354.027 I think where we get the gray area is reading quizzes. 

1354.027 - 1354.86 MARY CONRAN: Mm-hmm. 

1354.86 - 1355.31 SHAWN PONDER: Right. 

1355.31 - 1357.06 KELLY GRACE: And I've had some instructors 

1357.06 - 1359.03 say, no, in a real-- in a in a regular term, 

1359.03 - 1361.58 in a traditional term, I would have done it in class. 

1361.58 - 1362.27 SHAWN PONDER: Right, right. 

1362.27 - 1364.49 MARY CONRAN: They would not have given multiple attempts. 

1364.49 - 1366.17 KELLY GRACE: They would not have given multiple attempts. 

1366.17 - 1367.295 SHAWN PONDER: Right, right. 

1367.295 - 1368.425 You're right. 

1368.425 - 1369.8 MARY CONRAN: And so I think there 

1369.8 - 1373.7 is some there is some individual discretion in how they would 

1373.7 - 1378.14 have handled it, and that's allowed 

1378.14 - 1381.08 Mine are all homework because they're based on the reading 

1381.08 - 1383.9 and this is just a double-check that you read. 

1383.9 - 1386.81 But if I'm giving a test, then the test time 

1386.81 - 1388.34 would count as contact time. 

1388.34 - 1389.45 KELLY GRACE: Yes, yeah. 

1389.45 - 1392.96 Again, setting up the parameters and whatever delivery 

1392.96 - 1395.66 mode it's being done, that would determine whether or not 

1395.66 - 1396.658 it's contact hours. 

1396.658 - 1397.7 SHAWN PONDER: Absolutely. 

1397.7 - 1401.33 Now is there anything else that you've come across, 

1401.33 - 1403.565 like maybe conversations with professors, 

1403.565 - 1405.44 or just anything else you want to speak about 

1405.44 - 1408.767 as it relates to contact hours? 

1408.767 - 1410.35 MARY CONRAN: I feel like doing a quote 

1410.35 - 1411.97 from Pirates of the Caribbean. 

1411.97 - 1413.3 SHAWN PONDER: I love it. 

1413.3 - 1415.165 Right. 

1415.165 - 1417.04 MARY CONRAN: The university has the standard, 

1417.04 - 1418.41 but these are the guidelines. 

1418.41 - 1421.39 So there's a little-- there's a little ambiguity there. 

1421.39 - 1425.83 If someone doesn't exactly hit 37 in practice, not by design-- 

1425.83 - 1427.9 by design, it should hit that standard 

1427.9 - 1430.37 and actually, as I said, a little bit above that. 

1430.37 - 1432.46 But in practice, if it's a little bit below, 

1432.46 - 1434.06 they're merely guidelines. 

1434.06 - 1438.22 They're are things that we should be aspiring to be like. 

1438.22 - 1441.67 And that's why it's so important that as we're doing this review 

1441.67 - 1444.91 of contact hours, we see that they're-- 

1444.91 - 1446.68 how much of the bucket still needs 

1446.68 - 1449.83 to be filled because if it's a large gap, 

1449.83 - 1452.38 then something structurally needs 

1452.38 - 1454.24 to be done to that course design. 

1454.24 - 1456.4 If it's marginal, there are things 

1456.4 - 1459.643 very easy to put in there. 

1459.643 - 1460.56 SHAWN PONDER: Love it. 

1460.56 - 1461.31 MARY CONRAN: Yeah. 

1461.31 - 1463.12 KELLY GRACE: I think the other-- 

1463.12 - 1464.71 the only other thing that I would say 

1464.71 - 1467.98 is start early and work with your instructional design folks 

1467.98 - 1470.09 if you have that resource. 

1470.09 - 1470.96 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

1470.96 - 1474.44 KELLY GRACE: Because there's all kinds of ways to do this. 

1474.44 - 1477.62 In a way that is helpful for the students 

1477.62 - 1482.93 and gives them what we have ethically what ethically 

1482.93 - 1486.35 requires us to give them, a course that meets its course 

1486.35 - 1489.06 objectives as well as provides that 37 and 1/2 

1489.06 - 1490.378 hours of contact time. 

1490.378 - 1491.42 SHAWN PONDER: Absolutely. 

1491.42 - 1493.795 KELLY GRACE: It's kind of like an architectural structure 

1493.795 - 1495.23 that's designed to provide that. 

1495.23 - 1495.98 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

1495.98 - 1496.813 MARY CONRAN: Mm-hmm. 

1496.813 - 1499.7 SHAWN PONDER: Well, I think we have covered 

1499.7 - 1501.8 a large part of contact hours. 

1501.8 - 1504.5 I think that if there is a faculty member that 

1504.5 - 1506.54 needs that advice, you'll provide it 

1506.54 - 1508.82 great advice for them, so thank you so much. 

1508.82 - 1511.55 And also, thank you so much for your time today 

1511.55 - 1513.83 and explaining what contact hours are, 

1513.83 - 1517.1 the difference between homework and contact hours. 

1517.1 - 1518.69 Talked a little bit about group work, 

1518.69 - 1520.94 and also, the importance of tying your work 

1520.94 - 1523.22 back to your course objectives. 

1523.22 - 1524.462 And keeping things fresh. 

1524.462 - 1525.17 MARY CONRAN: Yes. 

1525.17 - 1526.01 Absolutely. 

1526.01 - 1528.25 SHAWN PONDER: So I love all the advice that-- 

1528.25 - 1528.33 It 

1528.33 - 1529.25 MARY CONRAN: Should be learner-centered. 

1529.25 - 1530.72 SHAWN PONDER: Yes, it should be learner-centered. 

1530.72 - 1531.41 Yes. 

1531.41 - 1533.12 And also, take a breath. 

1533.12 - 1534.29 [LAUGHTER] 

1534.29 - 1535.1 I love that. 

1535.1 - 1535.985 Like, just breathe. 

1535.985 - 1536.84 MARY CONRAN: --give advice. 

1536.84 - 1537.59 SHAWN PONDER: Yes. 

1537.59 - 1539.18 MARY CONRAN: Sometimes you just need a breath. 

1539.18 - 1540.722 SHAWN PONDER: You just need a breath. 

1540.722 - 1542.1 So thank you again for your time. 

1542.1 - 1542.51 MARY CONRAN: Thank you. 

1542.51 - 1543.71 KELLY GRACE: Thank you. 

1543.71 - 1547.66 [MUSIC PLAYING] 

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